Pay me under the table - Or I will lose my benefits
79
Under the Table
Many of you know I run a small business with a number of employees. For the last several weeks I have been seeking and interviewing applicants for a trainee position. After a two to three week training program the average employee earns between $750 to $1000 per week with medical insurance and paid vacations, and a company provided vehicle. This job requires long hours in the summer sun and daytime temperatures in excess of 100 degrees, so it ain't for sissies. However, at the age of 73, I can still do this job and often train new hires, so it is certainly doable for a young person in reasonably good physical condition. Some of my current employees have been with me for over 10 years, so it can't be that bad a job, and I treat them all very well.
In every round of job interviews, many job candidates are surprised to find out they are expected to show up for work everyday, and to show up on time. This is way too demanding for their lifestyle. It takes time and money to train a new employee, so I have become quite selective over the years. I have interviewed over 25 applicants to fill one job.
The latest trend is applicants asking if they can be paid under the table so they don't lose their unemployment benefits, food stamps, WIC, access health care, and whatever else they get. Some have even asked if I can hold the job for them until their unemployment runs out?
Now number one, this is illegal although I know many employers do pay under the table. There would be a great cost savings in doing this. No workers compensation insurance, unemployment insurance, SS matching, payroll taxes, health insurance, or other hidden costs in having employees. Very tempting, but this is not the way I roll. The liability alone would risk the entire business. Just say this employee got hurt on the job, goes to the hospital, and they file a report with the state for workers compensation to pay the hospital bill. Guess what, no insurance, the employer is in deep doo doo. Employees working for cash have even filed for unemployment listing the cash paying employer on the report. Guess what, the employer is in deep doo doo. While this form of payment would save me a ton of money, it just isn't worth the risk.
Now for the real point of this hub. I have no idea how much unemployment pays per week, but it can't be more than I pay my employees, yet most who are drawing unemployment refuse the job offer until their benefits run out. We read and see on TV about the high unemployment levels, and the extensions being granted, and now I wonder about these reportedly high numbers. I am not saying many are not desperately seeking work, but it seems others are enjoying a paid vacation for as long as it lasts.
I will keep looking and interviewing, and perhaps my timing will be perfect and I will run across someone that has just exhausted his unemployment benefits and wants to go to work.
If by any chance you doubt this, just Google "Pay under the table" and you will be presented with pages of links to information explaining how to do this. Just more payroll that is not being taxed.
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The bottom line is there is not work ethic anymore. It's easier to bum around and draw unemployment or cheat the government or someone else along the way and who cares who gets hurt in the way as long as your pockets full of cash and you don't have to work too hard for it! The risk does not out way the benefits not to mention the loss of integrity. Nice Hub!
Peter, it was certainly easier when I just did it all myself. But age catches up with everyone and we reach the day we just have to change the way we do things. If you were here, I would give you that job.
Naomi's Banner - thanks for the comments. I have no idea what happened to the fair days work for a fair days pay thing, but it went away. It is a whole new world out there in today's world.
I've run into this one before in several other forms. The government deal for being unemployed is so sweet to some people that they'd rather fake being unemployed and continue receiving unemployment. The phrase is 'fake it to make it'. The phrase seems to be an underlying theme to many of the techniques where folks live off the government.
Be clear though, not everyone is like that, just enough are like that to leave distaste for the system. It has a multiplicative cost effect too, we get so angry at it that we're willing to spend for investigation (faulty and subject to corruption too) and enforcement (same) to an extent that is way out of proportion to the damage done, thus costing even more to the taxpayer. The only way to stop it is to stop it, and none of us really relish the thought of taking away a means of caring for those who do need it. Another method is needed, perhaps revert to having local churches or charities take care of the needy rather than try to have one central system with associated bureaucracy and centralized corruption.
FitnezzJim - Thanks for stopping by and the comments. I agree, it is not everyone who has fallen in love with being supported by the Government, just the one's I have been interviewing for jobs. Within the mix of those receiving entitlements are those who really need the help and are deserving of that help, and those who just continue to abuse the system.
This would indicate to me it is the present system that is flawed, not all the people using the system. If I had a neighbor in serious trouble, I would almost rather help him out personally than contribute money to a system flawed as badly as our present system. At least I would know my money was actually doing some good. The people working at these agencies are part of the problem. The more people needing assistance, the more secure their own job becomes. I know for a fact these government employees give out lots of "hints" to people filling out the paperwork to request assistance.
You are so right, the only way to fix this would be to stop it completely, and many innocent and deserving people would be hurt.
There is no accounting for some people's lack of principles. I'd like to think it's not the majority who think along these lines, though my next door neighbor (a newcomer to our street who is renting a foreclosed house) just told me pretty much the same thing. I had told her of a business that was hiring and that was her first question: will they pay under the table because I'm collecting unemployment? I was a little shocked. She had said she was looking for work, after all. After reading this, perhaps I'm wrong; it is a common mindset.
I suppose there will always be those who abuse a good thing, and I do think unemployment benefits to be a good thing for all those actively looking for work. Interesting article.
The government gives employers an incentive to hire people who are collecting government benefits like the bridgecard for foodstamps which I probably qualify for but don't apply for.
This puts people who qualify but don't apply for these benefits at a disadvantage when it comes to getting a job and encourages people to get these government benefits in order to get an advantage over another person competing for the same job.
lmmartin - I think the rules of the game have changed, and somehow many of us didn't receive our copy of the new rule book. It is amazing how many have learned to play this new game and maximize the benefits available. I often hear of entitlement programs I have never even heard of, but many take advantage of. A new world out there.
someonewhoknows - That is interesting, but I have never heard of this program in my area of the country. I'm not sure I would utilize any government program anyhow because that gives them an open door into a business. There would most likely be reams of paperwork to fill out, and reports to file.
I appreciate your comments and will do a little research on this.
Mike - It sounds like the work ethic there is like it is here. You want me to do what? Show up for work!
The old Maynard G. Krebs syndrome. I know some people won't know who the hell I am talking about, but you do.
If I didn't own my own business I might come out there and show the youngsters how to work myself. Oh well...
Great Hub.
The Frog
FP, I'm sure you are no stranger to the problems involved with hiring workers who actually want to work. They all want a paycheck, but many are not that fond of working.
Of course I remember Maynard G. Krebs, must be a generation thing.
Part of the problem here is the system requirements for someone to start drawing unemployment. An employee terminated for cause, or an employee who quits without notice, is eligible for unemployment as if he got laid off due to workforce reduction. I get notice of unemployment claims for employees who have not worked for me for over 5 years. Now something is wrong with this picture.
Nope - Serious as a heart attack. For many it now comes down to working or drawing unemployment. Guess what the favorite choice is.
Great hub my friend. I know most of your employees, and I know you. You spoil your people, and they repay you by turning out work that represents your professionalism Mike. You're a class act, and you've put a lot of work into building your organization. In today's world you have to kiss a half a bazillion toads to get one guy that worth a hoot. People have begun to settle for far less than excellence, and they'd bettter wake up. It comes back around. That's why I'm finished with the trades, and doing politics. One problem .. There's more toads, and they're huge!
jim
Hey friend and neighbor, thanks for commenting. In your journey into the world of politics you are going to run into toads that make mine look like tadpoles.
I have to believe that if some "last check" notices accidently fell into the unemployment check envelopes, my phone would start ringing from people looking for work. I commented earlier that I now question the high unemployment numbers that are being reported. How many included in this number are unemployed by choice?
I don't doubt the truth of what you say. This is what happens when you give too much of a leg up to people. Welfare did it and now unemployment benefits that go on forever do the same. Everybody is looking to game the system and it s sickening. By the way that applies to small business owners who don't report their true earnings. If they did, we'd probably be okay.
BP - Unless a small business receives a lot of cash payments, I see no way not to report their true income. I'm sure this happens frequently with all cash business though.
Dear Old Poolman,
No question about it.
.
This is what I ran into years ago when I was working with welfare types. They were almost all addicted to government largesse, and those who did work all wanted cash, so they would not lose their benefits.
And they all supported Democrats.
WillStarr, believe it or not, just this morning I received a call from a casual friend who asked if she could put down my company as a place she had applied for a job. I told her not no, but hell no. Guess she won't be a friend anymore.
They're asking you to commit a possible felony! Who needs that kind of 'friend'?
WillStarr, the more I think about it now, the more I question the high unemployment numbers that are posted. The benefits have been extended over and over until many now feel that is their source of income, have adjusted accordingly, and they neither want or need a job.
Exactly.
Many pull unemployment benefits while working for cash, which can benefit both parties, because an employer can get someone for a few bucks an hour without paying any benefits or any of the government mandated deductions.
Meanwhile,the employee gets close to his usual wages by combining both payments.
As long as neither gets caught!
Shoot, I have 3 sons that have been unemployed for 2 years or more and they would be delighted to get a job. One got a job just this morning and we are celebrating. All we have to do now is figure out how to get him to his $9 an hour roofing job. Wrong end of the month for his dad and I. We get paid the first and he doesn't even have a car anymore. I will get him there somehow and he will start getting back on his feet. 5:00 am to 1:00pm, summer roofing hours. Any later and the rubber on the soles of your shoes starts melting.
Becky, thanks for commenting, and if you lived in Arizona I might be able to help you out. I feel really sorry for anybody out of work who really wants a job.
If I lived in AZ, you wouldn't need to help me out. Just let me know where to send them so they could get it on their own. I believe in helping but not giving it to them. Thank you.
I found myself blubbering out loud when you said how some of your applicants wince when hearing to show up on time and everyday. Aren't they there to make money? Then show up and be on time. It is so frustrating but good job being so patient and knowing who to hire and who not to hire. Great information.
Many of the younger people today have never been taught how to work. It is a different world than the one we grew up in.
I don't know what is going on but since I wrote the earlier comments, two of my sons have gotten work. One roofing laborer, training for shingling. The other dishwasher, but better than nothing. He will be able to train for asst. chef. You must have a miracle hub.
Becky, that is fantastic news. I doubt it had anything to do with my hub. You should be very proud you have two sons willing to work for a living.
They are so much happier when they are working. The one that got a job as a dishwasher is still going to be getting food stamps and medical for his kids until his income goes up but I am ok with that. He has 4 children 5 and under. They are so sweet. I am glad they will still have plenty of food and health care until their daddy's income goes up. That is what I believe these things were meant to be used for. Helping people who are trying but still not making it.
Becky, I honestly could not agree more with you. You summed up in one sentence what I have always believed. "Helping people who are trying but still not making it." Unfortunately, we are now helping a great many who have quit trying. Perhaps they lost hope, or perhaps it is just easier, only they know the answer to this. Tell your sons I am proud of them.
I will, they already know I am happy that they did not give up. Well, the youngest did for a time but Mom and Dad pulled some tough love on him and it straightened him out.
Becky, This tells me you are really great Mom.
unfortunately I had to play the same game. When I was on unemployment, I had to look for jobs that paid enough for me to go back to work, be off unemployment, and be able to pay for daycare for my daughter. I'm sure it is the number one reason people stayed on unemployment so long and the necessity for all the extensions. It just makes me shake my head at this country and I know why so many remain on benefits like welfare. Doesn't excuse it, but also can you blame them either?
Laura, No I don't blame them, I blame the system and the lack of control on all the entitlements we hand out. If they are there for the taking, many will choose this route. My generation didn't enjoy all the entitlements that are available today, so my opinions are based on that.
Sometimes I think the only way many immigrants know how to make money is from government programs. There certainly is a plethora of them. But like I said, myself and many of us got caught in this trap because of layoffs. Also, people with and education have to find a job that will cover their living expenses AND student loans.
Laura, don't even get me started on Student Loans. Brain power is the future of this country, yet we deny higher education to so many who just can't afford it. But we do let them have student loans that will take them half of their adult life to pay off. Is it any wonder we see the dumbing down of America, and wonderful minds being wasted? One of the greatest resources we have available is the minds of some brilliant young people, yet we make it nearly impossible for them to get the education they deserve. We should be paying for their educations, not charging them for their education.
love this hub! so true so true, but do these yahoos realize that the 'government' money they get is their money? Tax money that the blood sucking parasites we call politicians (allow I have met a few who have kept their moral compass) have drained out of us over the years. I have a paper that lists the taxes that have been imposed on us over the past 100 years I hope to get the list on my hub in the next few days.
republicagain aka Valerie
p.s. I remember Maynard G. Krebs too
Valerie - In answer to your question, no they don't. It is similar to those who brag about the large Income Tax Refund check they are getting this year. They don't realize it is their own money they loaned to the government for a whole year with no interest. They view this as a gift from the government. Until people realize they are playing with their own money this will never change. Thanks for the comment.
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PETER LUMETTA Level 6 Commenter 10 months ago
Heck Mike if I was in AZ I'd apply for that job. Sounds awful good. I've been in that position myself and also chose the normal route, It's just easier. Now self employed and no employees is another story. Another good observation by you and an honest one. Peter